vpadman
01-04 12:06 PM
One my friends got his wife's AP approved by scheduling an appointment with local InfoPass office. but you need a valid reason and proof for that. In his case he got his father in law's medical certificate from India.
Julsun,
When your friend went for INFOPASS, did he get a single copy of the AP, or two copies of the AP ?
I want to know if there is a difference between getting APs through mail or INFOPASS.
Thanks,
-Viju
Julsun,
When your friend went for INFOPASS, did he get a single copy of the AP, or two copies of the AP ?
I want to know if there is a difference between getting APs through mail or INFOPASS.
Thanks,
-Viju
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gc28262
06-11 03:30 PM
I keep reading we should fight for out rights and all. I am just curious
where does it say if on is on H1B or F1, he or she has a right to get a GC. GC or citizenship is a privilege, we cant demand it or force someone to give it to us. Its a simple demand and supply situation, there are more visa seekers then there is availability and therefore there is a waiting period. i am not sure why we don't accept the simple fact that there are way too many people from developing country like ours moving to US, and not everyone can be accommodated ASAP. i think US has every right to do what it thinks is best for her, even if we don't agree with that,
And those who say its discrimination, discrimination is when people from Bihar are beaten up on the streets of mumbai cause they are taking jobs away from marathi manus. Had there been so many techies from around the world taking up jobs in India, we would have seen street lynching.
nitinboston,
If you feel you don't deserve a GC, we are fine with that.
However for most of the people on this forum, we deserve it.
Please watch this Aman Kapoor Video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqHz7IGoYWQ
"In order to ask for something, you should feel that you deserve it."
It is that simple !
where does it say if on is on H1B or F1, he or she has a right to get a GC. GC or citizenship is a privilege, we cant demand it or force someone to give it to us. Its a simple demand and supply situation, there are more visa seekers then there is availability and therefore there is a waiting period. i am not sure why we don't accept the simple fact that there are way too many people from developing country like ours moving to US, and not everyone can be accommodated ASAP. i think US has every right to do what it thinks is best for her, even if we don't agree with that,
And those who say its discrimination, discrimination is when people from Bihar are beaten up on the streets of mumbai cause they are taking jobs away from marathi manus. Had there been so many techies from around the world taking up jobs in India, we would have seen street lynching.
nitinboston,
If you feel you don't deserve a GC, we are fine with that.
However for most of the people on this forum, we deserve it.
Please watch this Aman Kapoor Video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqHz7IGoYWQ
"In order to ask for something, you should feel that you deserve it."
It is that simple !
sunny1000
02-27 12:04 AM
still waiting...july 2002...NY
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billu
09-07 12:46 PM
With so many of us waiting for GCs for 5/10/15 years, makes me wonder what exactly is the motivation??what benefits/advantages does the GC bring ?one major advantage is that the spouse can work (which many of us already have -thanks to july 2007). So being on EAD or Green card-how is this different from h1b?what are some things one can do on GC that they were not able to do on h1b??i am trying to motivate myself for the long wait and need to reinforce that its indeed worth it..
more...
karan007
09-14 09:30 PM
it is
h1techSlave
07-15 04:35 PM
I have opted for Bill pay to avoid the hassle of sending a cheque.
Bill pay confirmation number from BOA is 7YFKN-7G411 ($10)
Bill pay confirmation number from BOA is 7YFKN-7G411 ($10)
more...
arnab221
06-23 09:30 PM
I thought Murphy's law of " Whatever can get delayed will get delayed " , applied to me only. Looks like in the US GC process it applies to everybody else also .
:D
:D
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singhsa3
07-20 03:48 PM
Not sure what your concerns are my freind. My intentions were pure and as follows:
a) We have won a battle but war is far from over.
b) Whole point of being able to file 485 is to obtain interim benefits, if there are substantial delays then whats the point.
c) There are other priorities in the life and it will be unfortumate if those are hostages to EAD/GC/AP.
e) The reality of the situation might inspire people to make change happen.
Having said that, I would like to express my disappointment on your tone of the message. Unlike yours, my message was not personal in nature. Your comments made me feel bad. I urge you to please exercise restraint. We are a team here!
Preparing for future is one thing but if you think that this is a valuable thread then go with it and enjoy, i just find it disheartening that people are trying to undermine whatever has been achieved by such threads (Like i said, he might be completely right but is there a need to tell it this way) and what are you going to prepare for the future ;) Do you know it ? (If you do, please keep it to yourself and enjoy or cry about it). Right now, i want to be positive and enjoy the fruits of what IV has done to get some relief, why use negative logic to undermine it and that is what i am saying. Leave us alone, who like IV and who want to have a moment's respite. Chill out dude, no offence meant and this my only response, will not reply if you attack me, so cool off.
So what are trying to prove ? Generally i dont respond but this just shows that you have a lot of time. Why dampen people's spirits by such post or why try to say that whatever IV has done is a waste. That is what i get from what you have posted. If you are cynical, keep it to your own self, dont start such negative threads. Dont know you and this is not a personal attack but think twice before you create such posts, because they are disheartening for many (including me) who are so frustrated that they can believe any thing negative. Chill out and let us enjoy the moment why we have it, if things change over the period, we are fighters, we will survive but dont add to our problems by your predictions and logic (which might be right to start with but do we tell cancer patients that they are going to die on such and such date).
No offence intended but cool off.
a) We have won a battle but war is far from over.
b) Whole point of being able to file 485 is to obtain interim benefits, if there are substantial delays then whats the point.
c) There are other priorities in the life and it will be unfortumate if those are hostages to EAD/GC/AP.
e) The reality of the situation might inspire people to make change happen.
Having said that, I would like to express my disappointment on your tone of the message. Unlike yours, my message was not personal in nature. Your comments made me feel bad. I urge you to please exercise restraint. We are a team here!
Preparing for future is one thing but if you think that this is a valuable thread then go with it and enjoy, i just find it disheartening that people are trying to undermine whatever has been achieved by such threads (Like i said, he might be completely right but is there a need to tell it this way) and what are you going to prepare for the future ;) Do you know it ? (If you do, please keep it to yourself and enjoy or cry about it). Right now, i want to be positive and enjoy the fruits of what IV has done to get some relief, why use negative logic to undermine it and that is what i am saying. Leave us alone, who like IV and who want to have a moment's respite. Chill out dude, no offence meant and this my only response, will not reply if you attack me, so cool off.
So what are trying to prove ? Generally i dont respond but this just shows that you have a lot of time. Why dampen people's spirits by such post or why try to say that whatever IV has done is a waste. That is what i get from what you have posted. If you are cynical, keep it to your own self, dont start such negative threads. Dont know you and this is not a personal attack but think twice before you create such posts, because they are disheartening for many (including me) who are so frustrated that they can believe any thing negative. Chill out and let us enjoy the moment why we have it, if things change over the period, we are fighters, we will survive but dont add to our problems by your predictions and logic (which might be right to start with but do we tell cancer patients that they are going to die on such and such date).
No offence intended but cool off.
more...
add78
06-12 09:47 AM
got 1 friend to donate yest., he should be posting the receipt Id soon.. I have the ID but didn't wanna post myself to double count.
Guys, please persuade your friends and coworkers.
Thanks.
Guys, please persuade your friends and coworkers.
Thanks.
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nk2006
10-16 04:29 PM
Issue/Background:
It seems USCIS is not following AC21 regulations in some cases – especially when underlying I140 is revoked by previous employer – and are incorrectly denying I485 applications. As we know, AC21 regulations and related guidelines, provide some relief and allow job changes without affecting the I485 application. As per these rules if the employee changes employment after 180 days of submitting I485 application, there is no need to redo I140 even-if old employer revokes the old I140.
In recent days USCIS seems to be denying lot of I485 applications – ignoring their own AC21 regulations. A few of IV volunteers (pd_recapturing, gc4me, chanduv et al) have started an effort to address this. You can get more info on this, at this thread: http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21716.
This issue can affect a lot of us and it negates all the flexibility/relief that we acquired by getting EAD’s and advantages we got thru recent admin reform.
What needs to be done:
After some initial discussions and planning (thanks to pd-capturing, chandu, et al) it is decided to write letters to Ombudsman and service center heads to point out this and request them to correct it ASAP. Please participate and send letters. To succeed we need to send it in thousands.
Pasting the letter and the addresses below.
More info: (thanks to gc4me for addresses and letter template):
======================
Everyone please send the letter/email to: Ombudsman
======================
Ombudsman:
cisombudsman@dhs.gov
Mailing Address:
Citizenship and Immigration Services Ombudsman
ATTN: Recommendations
United States Department of Homeland Security
Mail Stop 1225
Washington, D.C. 20528-1225
=======================
============================
Letter
============================
Date: Today()
To
Mr. Michael Timothy Dougherty
The Ombudsman
Citizenship and Immigration Services Ombudsman
United States Department of Homeland Security
Mail Stop 1225
Washington, D.C. 20528-1225
Re: Issues caused by USCIS not following AC21 guidelines
Dear Sir,
This is to bring your attention to the issues caused by USCIS not following AC21 guidelines.
The American Competitiveness in the Twenty-First Century Act of 2000 (AC21) allows for a change of employer on any I-485 Adjustment of Status Application that has been pending for 180 days or more, without the need to file a new I-140 petition, provided the applicant’s new employment is in a similar/same occupation.
According to the Memo released by William R Yates on August 4th 2003, the original I-140 is valid if it is approvable and form I-485 has been pending for more than 180 days. (Attached for your reference is the memo dated August 4th 2003 from William R Yates and the follow-up memo dated May 12th 2005 with relevant sections highlighted).
Due to unreasonable delays caused by retrogression, many candidates have lawfully changed employers in accordance with the AC21 statute. Even though there is no requirement that USCIS be notified after a job change, some applicants have done so to prove that they are in compliance with this regulation. If the previous employer has withdrawn the previously approved I-140, AC21 guidelines state that if the applicant has not submitted evidence of a new qualifying offer of employment, the applicant be sent an NOID (Notice of Intent to Deny) to deny the I-485 application or a RFE (Request for Evidence) . If the response to the NOID/RFE is timely and indicates that the alien has a new offer of employment in the same or similar occupation, USCIS may consider the approved Form I-140 to remain valid with respect to the new offer of employment and may continue regular processing of the Form I-485.
Over the past few months, a disturbing pattern has emerged with cases where the applicant has changed employers. USCIS has started to deny I-485applications where the underlying I-140 has been withdrawn by the previous employer without issuing an NOID or RFE. Even those applicants who have notified USCIS of change in employers have had their I-485 denied.
After the denial of I-485, the applicant has to file a MTR (Motion to reconsider) with USCIS to re-open the case. In addition to the financial burden of filing and legal fees, the applicant has to stop working because of the denial of the I-485 until the case is re-opened. This could be anywhere from a month to a few months. Needless to say, employers are unwilling to keep the job position open for such a long period and the applicant in most cases is looking at potential loss of employment. The applicant who has followed the law to the fullest extent is unfairly punished on account of USCIS not following the AC21 provisions.
This is a request for you to intervene to ensure that the AC21 regulations are followed when adjudicating an I-485 application. If the applicant notifies USCIS of a change in employment under AC21, this should be added the applicant’s physical file and electronic records. If there is no such notification and the previous employer withdraws the I-140, the applicant should be issued a NOID/RFE instead of denying the I-485 application.
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact.
Thank you in advance for your kind attention and cooperation in this matter.
Thanks,
Your Name
Your Address
Your Phone Number
It seems USCIS is not following AC21 regulations in some cases – especially when underlying I140 is revoked by previous employer – and are incorrectly denying I485 applications. As we know, AC21 regulations and related guidelines, provide some relief and allow job changes without affecting the I485 application. As per these rules if the employee changes employment after 180 days of submitting I485 application, there is no need to redo I140 even-if old employer revokes the old I140.
In recent days USCIS seems to be denying lot of I485 applications – ignoring their own AC21 regulations. A few of IV volunteers (pd_recapturing, gc4me, chanduv et al) have started an effort to address this. You can get more info on this, at this thread: http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21716.
This issue can affect a lot of us and it negates all the flexibility/relief that we acquired by getting EAD’s and advantages we got thru recent admin reform.
What needs to be done:
After some initial discussions and planning (thanks to pd-capturing, chandu, et al) it is decided to write letters to Ombudsman and service center heads to point out this and request them to correct it ASAP. Please participate and send letters. To succeed we need to send it in thousands.
Pasting the letter and the addresses below.
More info: (thanks to gc4me for addresses and letter template):
======================
Everyone please send the letter/email to: Ombudsman
======================
Ombudsman:
cisombudsman@dhs.gov
Mailing Address:
Citizenship and Immigration Services Ombudsman
ATTN: Recommendations
United States Department of Homeland Security
Mail Stop 1225
Washington, D.C. 20528-1225
=======================
============================
Letter
============================
Date: Today()
To
Mr. Michael Timothy Dougherty
The Ombudsman
Citizenship and Immigration Services Ombudsman
United States Department of Homeland Security
Mail Stop 1225
Washington, D.C. 20528-1225
Re: Issues caused by USCIS not following AC21 guidelines
Dear Sir,
This is to bring your attention to the issues caused by USCIS not following AC21 guidelines.
The American Competitiveness in the Twenty-First Century Act of 2000 (AC21) allows for a change of employer on any I-485 Adjustment of Status Application that has been pending for 180 days or more, without the need to file a new I-140 petition, provided the applicant’s new employment is in a similar/same occupation.
According to the Memo released by William R Yates on August 4th 2003, the original I-140 is valid if it is approvable and form I-485 has been pending for more than 180 days. (Attached for your reference is the memo dated August 4th 2003 from William R Yates and the follow-up memo dated May 12th 2005 with relevant sections highlighted).
Due to unreasonable delays caused by retrogression, many candidates have lawfully changed employers in accordance with the AC21 statute. Even though there is no requirement that USCIS be notified after a job change, some applicants have done so to prove that they are in compliance with this regulation. If the previous employer has withdrawn the previously approved I-140, AC21 guidelines state that if the applicant has not submitted evidence of a new qualifying offer of employment, the applicant be sent an NOID (Notice of Intent to Deny) to deny the I-485 application or a RFE (Request for Evidence) . If the response to the NOID/RFE is timely and indicates that the alien has a new offer of employment in the same or similar occupation, USCIS may consider the approved Form I-140 to remain valid with respect to the new offer of employment and may continue regular processing of the Form I-485.
Over the past few months, a disturbing pattern has emerged with cases where the applicant has changed employers. USCIS has started to deny I-485applications where the underlying I-140 has been withdrawn by the previous employer without issuing an NOID or RFE. Even those applicants who have notified USCIS of change in employers have had their I-485 denied.
After the denial of I-485, the applicant has to file a MTR (Motion to reconsider) with USCIS to re-open the case. In addition to the financial burden of filing and legal fees, the applicant has to stop working because of the denial of the I-485 until the case is re-opened. This could be anywhere from a month to a few months. Needless to say, employers are unwilling to keep the job position open for such a long period and the applicant in most cases is looking at potential loss of employment. The applicant who has followed the law to the fullest extent is unfairly punished on account of USCIS not following the AC21 provisions.
This is a request for you to intervene to ensure that the AC21 regulations are followed when adjudicating an I-485 application. If the applicant notifies USCIS of a change in employment under AC21, this should be added the applicant’s physical file and electronic records. If there is no such notification and the previous employer withdraws the I-140, the applicant should be issued a NOID/RFE instead of denying the I-485 application.
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact.
Thank you in advance for your kind attention and cooperation in this matter.
Thanks,
Your Name
Your Address
Your Phone Number
more...
ItIsNotFunny
03-12 11:49 AM
Pappu,
Donor forum concept is the only workable model. I request you to not stop this model.
ItIsNotFunny has done very good work to help us all. I would like to double my monthly contribution and contribute on behalf of ItIsNotFunny if that is ok with ItIsNotFunny and you, till the time ItIsNotFunny starts at a new job or till I have a job, whichever is sooner.
Cheers
Sanju,
Heartly appreciate your friendly gesture. Unfortunately my soul will not accept this solution.
Thanks again for your gesture. I think I got a good friend today, which is difficult :).
Donor forum concept is the only workable model. I request you to not stop this model.
ItIsNotFunny has done very good work to help us all. I would like to double my monthly contribution and contribute on behalf of ItIsNotFunny if that is ok with ItIsNotFunny and you, till the time ItIsNotFunny starts at a new job or till I have a job, whichever is sooner.
Cheers
Sanju,
Heartly appreciate your friendly gesture. Unfortunately my soul will not accept this solution.
Thanks again for your gesture. I think I got a good friend today, which is difficult :).
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jonty_11
07-06 01:25 PM
I never saw this roumer any where..
well its a few posts above on this thread..
BTW, I am wondering why DOS keeps posting updates to July VB, rather than justmaking everything "U" instead of "C".....This is confusing.
well its a few posts above on this thread..
BTW, I am wondering why DOS keeps posting updates to July VB, rather than justmaking everything "U" instead of "C".....This is confusing.
more...
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kshitijnt
06-26 12:15 AM
.
BTW I’ve got a Home Theater at my apartment and my current status is H1B with pending I-140 + I-485 :)
So did you buy home theatre after filing 485 or before? Btw, I dont believe there is any relationship to income wrt visa status.
BTW I’ve got a Home Theater at my apartment and my current status is H1B with pending I-140 + I-485 :)
So did you buy home theatre after filing 485 or before? Btw, I dont believe there is any relationship to income wrt visa status.
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saiju
07-21 11:38 PM
How many of you called senators office.
What is the reply you got from them?
Please post the reply here
What is the reply you got from them?
Please post the reply here
more...
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boldm28
09-22 06:16 PM
bump
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kiran24
08-03 10:55 PM
There is a conference call going on at SoCal IV forum Bbetween 8:00 P.M to 8:30 P.M. Please join the call if you are interested in attending a SoCal IV organized booth at an event in Southern CA.
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India_USA
04-29 03:10 PM
way to go pappu!
we will take this on definitely!!!!!!!!! And we will recognize ourselves as Immigration Voice members in our calls
we will take this on definitely!!!!!!!!! And we will recognize ourselves as Immigration Voice members in our calls
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chanduv23
05-18 03:39 PM
ANOTHER UPDATE
I just spoke to Congressional office and this is what she has to say:
Quote"""""""""""
I just spoke with our liaison at the Nebraska office and she confirmed that your motion to reopen was approved on Friday (05/15/2009). That, I am told, means Nebraska agrees to re-examine your I-485 denial and a decision should be forthcoming within 60 days. I suggest that we wait to see what that decision is before our office initiates any formal inquiries with the USCIS Nebraska Director.
""""""""""""""Unquote
But she agreed that my second MTR might have been on sidelines and the congressional office inquiry into the matter could have influenced USCIS to review my case ( probably with a supervisor) immediately. She told me that she would put another inquiry with NSC in 4 weeks if nothing comes up. Finally we have decided to forgo (just for now) the process of writing letter to the NSC Director as it might not add much weight to the process, as congressional office would be repeating the same argument that my Attorney has made regarding the AC21, which a supervisor is already looking at.
I have already waited for 3 months. Another 2 months might take its toll on my emotional drain.
God save AC21............
That is a standard message. Basically yur 485 has been reopened. Unless your priority date is current there is nothing much they can do, but if there is a need for RFE, they will send you RFE.
Congratulations. This is a standard message your case has been reopened. You must celebrate this moment.
Unless your MTR is approved, your case does not get reopened. So your MTR is also approved - usually they do not update those messages on the online system properly and thats why we do not see them.
I just spoke to Congressional office and this is what she has to say:
Quote"""""""""""
I just spoke with our liaison at the Nebraska office and she confirmed that your motion to reopen was approved on Friday (05/15/2009). That, I am told, means Nebraska agrees to re-examine your I-485 denial and a decision should be forthcoming within 60 days. I suggest that we wait to see what that decision is before our office initiates any formal inquiries with the USCIS Nebraska Director.
""""""""""""""Unquote
But she agreed that my second MTR might have been on sidelines and the congressional office inquiry into the matter could have influenced USCIS to review my case ( probably with a supervisor) immediately. She told me that she would put another inquiry with NSC in 4 weeks if nothing comes up. Finally we have decided to forgo (just for now) the process of writing letter to the NSC Director as it might not add much weight to the process, as congressional office would be repeating the same argument that my Attorney has made regarding the AC21, which a supervisor is already looking at.
I have already waited for 3 months. Another 2 months might take its toll on my emotional drain.
God save AC21............
That is a standard message. Basically yur 485 has been reopened. Unless your priority date is current there is nothing much they can do, but if there is a need for RFE, they will send you RFE.
Congratulations. This is a standard message your case has been reopened. You must celebrate this moment.
Unless your MTR is approved, your case does not get reopened. So your MTR is also approved - usually they do not update those messages on the online system properly and thats why we do not see them.
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immi_seeker
12-15 02:20 PM
Looks like he is behind in time :-)
Michael chertoff is no more uscis boss. Its janet napolitano
Michael chertoff is no more uscis boss. Its janet napolitano
funny
09-15 04:27 PM
People, most of us here are just afraid that they will get red dots, be ridiculed for their beliefs. But the things is; If we don't fight for our rights, who will. We have to defend our place in the queue, which at the moment is at substantial risk.
I want everybody to get their GCs. but now interfiling/porting is hurting out position in the queue.
If you are not aware, a good bunch of EB3s are now trying to interfile & port their PDs which are between 2001 - 2005 to EB2.
This will potentially put tens of thousands of people in the EB2 queue before most people in EB2 who are waiting.
These people were not eligible for EB2 when they filed their own labor.. so they should NOT BE ALLOWED TO PORT THEIR OLD PDs. Sure EB3 can Interfile .. but you will get a new PD ... the date you interfile.
If we just keep looking... there will be a huge retrogression in EB2. And its not like these EB3 people will get through with the interfiling/porting. Most of them will be issued RFEs. Their labor apps will be audited and their primary EB3 apps will be cancelled. Infact, 85% of interfiling will never successfully make it through. And its not like it will help the EB3 brothers. That queue will still be long... because they are not going to withdraw their EB3 apps.
Also, while they will not succeed in interfiling/porting, they still will have their apps with USCIS and USCIS will sit on them before eventually issuing NOID. Sad part is they will count these when giving numbers to DOS for setting visa bulletins.
This PD porting is the last "not so ethical & legal" thing after labor substitution.. that we need to Put a cork on.
If we don't act now... then we can all expect to stay in AOS for the next 5 years. This holds for both EB2 and EB3.
I want everybody to get their GCs. I also am OK with the wait.
But anything that threatens my position in the queue is not acceptable.
My dear friend "GCtest"
There are two really important threads going on on IV.
1.IV call campaign HR 5882
2. Give me a HIGH FIVE.
Before using IV's resoruces and knowledge available from all the members available on IV, did it ever occur to you to contribute "+vly" on these 2 threads...I am asking +ve contribution here... because u are really good at contributing -vely on the forum.
I want everybody to get their GCs. but now interfiling/porting is hurting out position in the queue.
If you are not aware, a good bunch of EB3s are now trying to interfile & port their PDs which are between 2001 - 2005 to EB2.
This will potentially put tens of thousands of people in the EB2 queue before most people in EB2 who are waiting.
These people were not eligible for EB2 when they filed their own labor.. so they should NOT BE ALLOWED TO PORT THEIR OLD PDs. Sure EB3 can Interfile .. but you will get a new PD ... the date you interfile.
If we just keep looking... there will be a huge retrogression in EB2. And its not like these EB3 people will get through with the interfiling/porting. Most of them will be issued RFEs. Their labor apps will be audited and their primary EB3 apps will be cancelled. Infact, 85% of interfiling will never successfully make it through. And its not like it will help the EB3 brothers. That queue will still be long... because they are not going to withdraw their EB3 apps.
Also, while they will not succeed in interfiling/porting, they still will have their apps with USCIS and USCIS will sit on them before eventually issuing NOID. Sad part is they will count these when giving numbers to DOS for setting visa bulletins.
This PD porting is the last "not so ethical & legal" thing after labor substitution.. that we need to Put a cork on.
If we don't act now... then we can all expect to stay in AOS for the next 5 years. This holds for both EB2 and EB3.
I want everybody to get their GCs. I also am OK with the wait.
But anything that threatens my position in the queue is not acceptable.
My dear friend "GCtest"
There are two really important threads going on on IV.
1.IV call campaign HR 5882
2. Give me a HIGH FIVE.
Before using IV's resoruces and knowledge available from all the members available on IV, did it ever occur to you to contribute "+vly" on these 2 threads...I am asking +ve contribution here... because u are really good at contributing -vely on the forum.
sanjeev_2004
09-28 10:17 PM
USCIS don’t understand how desperately we need GC to get rid of these Middle client suckers. We are counting every day and they are just careless about their job.
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